Democracy Now!

By way of Liberation News Service

[Interview with Bolivian President Evo Morales. Here he talks about some interesting question relating to the new possibilities of democratic transformation, the problems of leadership, and global warming – among other things. Some Excerpts:]

AMY GOODMAN: The Bolivian Supreme Court recently asked the government to start extradition proceedings for the former Bolivian President Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada, who lives here in the United States in Miami. They also asked for an order for him not to be allowed to go to another country, but to be sent back to Bolivia. What is the former president guilty of and whether he thinks the United States will extradite him.

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: First of all, the United States cannot, should not receive, protect delinquents from any part of the world. It is unconscionable that the United States, a democratic country, would be protecting international criminals like Posada Carriles. The process has to do with two issues: first of all, human rights, and second of all, for economic damages done to the state. So people who massacre peoples, that violate human rights and do economic damage to countries and their economies have to go to jail. The United States shouldn’t be sitting there waiting for a process to be put into motion, but rather should kick these people out so that they can be submitted to justice.

I hope the United States respects these norms and respects the decision of our Supreme Court. But here, we have an experience. The last military dictator was sent to jail. And since that time, in Bolivia, no member of the military dares to threaten a coup d’etat. Likewise, any democratic government that violates human rights, that massacres people or that does economic damage to the state should also be subject to these sorts of processes, and their leaders should be put in jail, so that they never dare to do it again either.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Mr. President, you said a few moments ago that you’d rather have protesters throwing rocks than using guns. In a few weeks, it will be the fortieth anniversary of the death of Che Guevara. He died in Bolivia. Looking back at it — you were a child then — what is your sense of the legacy of Che Guevara to the people of Latin America?

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: First of all, in the ’40s, in the ’50s, in the ’60s – of course, when I hadn’t been born yet – my first perception was that people rose up in arms to struggle against the empire. Now, I see quite the opposite, that it’s the empire that’s raising up arms against the peoples. What I think is that back then, that the peoples, they got organized and struggled, looking for justice, for equality. And now I think that these transformations, these structural transformations, are being forged through democracies.

And from these two points of view, Che Guevara continues to be a symbol of someone who gave his life for the peoples, when in Bolivia and in other countries around the world reigned military dictatorships. So that’s why it’s amazing to see that all over the world Che Guevara is still there, forty years later. But now, we’re living in other times. But to value and recognize that thinking, that struggle, and if we recognize and we value it, that doesn’t mean it means to mechanically follow the steps that he took in terms of military uprising.

And that’s where, for example, I respect Fidel Castro. In 2003, I was invited to a conference in Havana, Cuba. And Fidel said the following: “Don’t do what I’ve done. Do what Chavez is doing: transformations through a constituent assembly.” I think it was a good teaching, because we’ve seen the constituent assemblies in Venezuela, in Ecuador and now in Bolivia, as well, that through democracy we can achieve structural transformations.

AMY GOODMAN: What is the effect of the war on Iraq in Latin America, in Bolivia, in particular?

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: There is a feeling that leads to the rejection, the repudiation of the United States government. This intervention of the United States in Iraq helps anti-imperialist thinking and feeling to grow. The pretext of fighting against terrorism and for security, with this pretext, they intervene and create all these deaths. But there are also other issues, economic issues, underlying it. I feel that we’re in times of not looking to how to extinguish lives, but rather how to save lives.

JUAN GONZALEZ: I’d like to ask you about the issue of global warming. It’s become a major increasing discussion in many governments and around the world. From the perspective of the indigenous people of Bolivia, the future of the planet? And what policies must be adopted, especially by the industrialized countries?

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: So if globalization does not admit difference and pluralism, if it’s a selective globalization, therefore it will be almost impossible to resolve environmental issues and save humanity. The most important contribution that indigenous peoples can make is to live in harmony with Mother Earth. We say the “Mother Earth,” because the earth gives us life, and neither the Mother Earth nor life can be a commodity. So we’re talking about a profound change in the economic models and systems.

JUAN GONZALEZ: I’d like to ask you perhaps a delicate question. You mentioned earlier your admiration for Fidel Castro. Fidel, before he stepped down, had been president for more than forty years, before he stepped down from day-to-day administration in the Cuban government. President Chavez now has been in office for two terms and is seeking to change the law to maintain himself in office. Do you think that the leader of a country, no matter how progressive, should have a limited amount of time in power?

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: To put those kinds of limits may not be the most democratic. Here, what’s important is the conscience of a people. And so, our proposal, there has to be a way to revoke leadership roles, but also to ratify leadership, and this is for mayors, for governors, for regional leaders, as well as for presidents. If they have the support of the people, then they have every right to be ratified in power. And mayors, governors and presidents, they can also be revoked, their mandates can be revoked

before they finish their terms, if that’s the will of the people. In fact, I’m seeing at this point that, through ratifying and returning people to power, it actually becomes an incentive for them to do a good – and continue to do a good and better job in their municipalities at the departmental levels in the positions that they hold, because the people have valued their work, and that’s why they’re ratified. But when they are not ratified, they take advantage of that fact, and they say, “OK, I’m on my way out the door, so now is the time to steal, as my mandate is ending.”

AMY GOODMAN: What is your assessment of President Bush?

PRESIDENT EVO MORALES: Why would I have to evaluate President Bush? I respect your country. One concern that I have is that in Iran – in Iraq, the massacre of the people cannot continue. I think that this is something that not only affects President Bush, but affects all the North American people. I think that in this new millennium, we fundamentally should be oriented towards saving lives and not ending lives. The differences continentally between countries, between regions, these should be discussed.

And if there’s not agreements between governments and their presidents, why not submit these issues to the peoples to be decided upon? This would be the best way to do democracy now.